This is “From a Different Point of View,” a feature where I discuss a comic book series with other people. Ever since the pandemic began, I’ve been doing twice-weekly reader chats about notable comic book crossovers, storylines or miniseries. We started with Secret Wars and then we did Knightfall and now we’re starting with Maximum Carnage!
Each time around, I’ll share a chunk of our discussion.
When last we checked in on Maximum Carnage, we were discussing Spectacular Spider-Man #201, Maximum Carnage Part 5, “Over the Line,” by J.M. DeMatteis and Sal Buscema, with letters by Joe Rosen and colors by Bob Sharen, edited by Danny Fingeroth and Rob Tokar.
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Carnage has escaped from custody and gone on a rampage in Manhattan, along with Shriek, Doppelganger and his newest addition to the team, Demogoblin. Spider-Man, meanwhile, has teamed up with Venom and Black Cat to try to stop them (as well as Cloak, whose partner, Dagger, was seemingly murdered by Shriek), even though Mary Jane begs him to stop to keep himself safe.
The heroes had just recently suffered a loss against the villains and Venom and Black Cat are both upset that Spider-Man stayed behind to help them rather than chase after Carnage by himself. Black Cat and Venom then split from Spider-Man and Spidey…went to Aunt May’s house in Forest Hills?
What happens next?
Brian Cronin: Okay, so Carnage and his crew are out there killing people.
Brian Cronin: They are not even REMOTELY hiding.
Brian Cronin: They are VERY easy to find.
Brian Cronin: And yet Spider-Man then goes to Forest Hills to..sulk?
Tom A.: Peter’s so sad he isn’t even eating his wheatcakes.
Flavio Sette: Totally.
Writerboy: Seems about right
Flavio Sette: “I got time to chat with Aunt May, right? Only a dozen people dead so far, I got time”.
Sean Whitmore: And it’s not even played up as he’s worried about MJ, or he’s about to pass out from rib pain
Sean Whitmore: He’s whining about Venom
Tom A.: It’s kind of weird how Richard Parker goes on this long rant about how there’s evil in this world and we must fight fire with fire, just because he overheard Peter saying that sometimes in the modern world it’s hard to tell right from wrong.
Writerboy: Peter never had a problem he couldn’t make worse by wallowing in it
Flavio Sette: You think he practiced that speech beforehand?
Sean Whitmore: “Just in case you were thinking about the morality of killing people, son…”
Flavio Sette: Like he’s been spending the last few weeks going like “oh, man, I hope Peter asks me some kinda question about morality or the nature of good and evil or something”
Sean Whitmore: “I wasn’t, Dad.”
Tom A.: Also, weird how Richard focuses on his time in a prison camp and not the evil people he faced as a spy, like the commie Red Skull.
Brian Cronin: Pretty much
Sean Whitmore: “Well, either way.”
Brian Cronin: It really, really, REALLY doesn’t work
Tom A.: Yeah, narrative wise it makes sense for Richard to give this speech, but in-universe it makes no sense.
Brian Cronin: To have Richard giving this speech
Brian Cronin: Paired with the villains slaughtering innocents
Brian Cronin: While Peter chills in Forest Hills, debating shit with his aunt and his dad.
Writerboy: But at least it’s well-drawn
Sean Whitmore: It’s a really bad story choice even without the secret-robot thing, but in retrospect with the secret-robot thing, it becomes hilarious.
Tom A.: “I was programmed to remember that the prison camp was bad.”
Sean Whitmore: “I’ll bore him with some story so lots of people die, my masters will be pleased.”
Writerboy: I wonder if Harry wrote that speech himself
Brian Cronin: What does Richard even think is happening here?
Flavio Sette: Yeah, I’m guessing Harry wrote the speech himself for maximum impact.
Brian Cronin: Assuming he was an actual person
Brian Cronin: What does he think is Peter’s problem here?
Brian Cronin: What is Peter asking for advice about, in his mind?
Tom A.: “Peter is clearly having a hard time with what’s right and wrong. I’ll start telling him about how evil is bad and must be purged even if you must fight fire with fire. I’m a great Dad who gives great advice.”
Sean Whitmore: Richard assumed Peter had to stand up to a low-down mug who was muscling in on his rackets, and other old-timey things.
Writerboy: It’s like he’s responding just to May’s idealism
Flavio Sette: Peter is considering having sex with his wife’s best friend who was told by a fortune teller she can’t have kids.
Brian Cronin: It really does seem like he’s just responding to May’s idealism.
Brian Cronin: That really does seem like what’s happening.
Sean Whitmore: “Trying to decide whether to cheat on your taxes, son? Well let me tell you, the WORLD was FORGED in FLAME!”
Flavio Sette: “That’s everyone’s moral conumdrum, right?”
Writerboy: “Perhaps he’s having trouble with this Flash Thompson character I’ve heard about. Better tell Pete to put him in the ground.”
Brian Cronin: “I don’t know what you’re talking about and I don’t know what your problem is, but Aunt May and Uncle Ben are full of shit, son.”
Brian Cronin: “The world is pain.”
Brian Cronin: “I hope that helps.”
Writerboy: Good talk
Sean Whitmore: Richard has been looking for ANY excuse to unload on May.
Brian Cronin: And with that in mind, even Peter’s exit, in this context, doesn’t make sense.
Flavio Sette: “Listen, son, back in the CIA, if we wanted to get rid of someone, we’d shoot them twice in the back of the head”.
Sean Whitmore: He’s been living in her house for months and he’s going batty.
Flavio Sette: “Here’s a gun, maybe this will solve your problem? Make sure you wear gloves, kiddo!”
Sean Whitmore: I wish Venom had been there so he coulda been all, “We like your Dad, Pete!”
Flavio Sette: And of course, I imagine Harry programmed the robot to close his eyes and look all sad.
Tom A.: May is starting to regret letting this guy live here.
Tom A.: “My brother was full of shit, May. You probably shouldn’t have married him.”
Brian Cronin: I guess Peter could have tried to comfort Richard?
Sean Whitmore: May is remembering when she first started dating Ben, and his younger brother was constantly going off about the evils of mankind.
Writerboy: “For a twelve-year-old, he reads an awful lot of Bukowski, Ben”
Tom A.: “My only regret is that the real Red Skull killed the commie Red Skull before I had the chance to do it.”
Brian Cronin: I mean, at least Buscema really is nailing the character work.
Brian Cronin: Peter’s expression as he edges out of the house is strong.
Writerboy: Like a motherfucking boss
IntriguedStranger: This whole Spidey grim thing feels like the dry run for “Pursuit” and such nihilism doesn’t suit the character.
Brian Cronin: Yeah
Brian Cronin: Agreed. It works for this one very specific plot point.
Brian Cronin: Like this one day.
Brian Cronin: But anything more, it doesn’t work.
Brian Cronin: As we discussed in one of the earlier chats.
Sean Whitmore: Yeah, it’s funny to think how close we are to “I am Spider”, and how that dragged on for months
Writerboy: Yeah, going through this whole arc in one summer reeeeeeeeeally makes it tedious when they do it for, like, all of 1994
Next time, we see how Spider-Man puts his dad’s ideas into action. If you have any Maximum Carnage thoughts, feel free to share them at brianc@cbr.com!
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